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Christians who are involved in counseling are confronted with a variety of ideas as to what "Christian counseling" actually is. In the last century, the idea of "Christian" counseling was relatively new. Pastors would counsel the best they knew how, but there was no philosophy of Christian counseling that I know of until the 60's or 70's. The first that I became aware of it was when I was doing my graduate work in marriage and family therapy in California. A friend introduced me to Jay Adams' book Nouthetic Counseling. Though your dictionary probably doesn't carry this word, a website on Nouthetic Counseling says this: Nouthetic comes from the Greek word nouthesia, which implies Scriptural direction. In Nouthetic counseling God's word is used as a Standard guide-line, not any secular textbook or Christian textbook with the author's opinion. Neither the use of Psychotherapy, nor the personal point of view of the counselor (sic.). Christian antipathy toward the science of psychology has grown to the point that numerous websites use the expression "psycho-babble" to demean the science of psychology. Certainly, much psychology needs to be scrutinized, just as much biblical interpretation needs to be scrutinized. I haven't kept up with all of the variations that Adams' book has spawned over the past thirty-five years, but one of the variations that is popular today is called "The Sufficiency of Scripture." Given the plethora of ideas that go by this name, I certainly won't address them all in this paper. But I am convinced of this: the Scripture certainly is sufficient to give us God's view of what counselors need to know about the revelation of His person and work. Page 2 If we are to be truly biblical in our counseling, at least two important theological truths must be considered: 1) The Importance of Naturalistic Theism and Biblical Theism 2) A Proper Understanding of 2 Timothy 3:16-17 The Importance of Naturalistic Theism and Biblical Theism The study of theism (God, His person and work) falls into the systematic theology category of Theology Proper. God has revealed His person and work to man. How has He done this? Biblical theism properly states that God has revealed Himself to modern man in what we call the Bible. Arguments as to the reliability of the Bible are a separate subject to be debated elsewhere. Christians are content to accept reliable translations of the Bible from the original languages as the Word of God. The problem arises when the Christian maintains that the Bible is the only source of the revelation of God to modern man. But this ignores the important biblical truth of naturalistic theism--God's revelation of Himself in Creation. Three passages of Scripture speak of it. The first is in the Psalms: The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world (Psalm 19:1-4 NIV). The NIV has a misleading footnote in verses 3&4. It says that verse 3 should be translated, "they have no speech, there are no words; no sound is heard from them." It says verse 4 should be translated, "their line [not voice] goes out into all the earth." Page 3 While the footnote is a literal translation of the Hebrew, it doesn't explain what is being said. In fact, it sounds just the opposite of the English translation. The word translated "line" is the Hebrew word qav meaning, "a rope" or "string." The line, in this case, has reference to a harp string that sounds forth the message of creation. This is why it is translated "voice," which is not a translation of qav ("line") but an interpretation-though a justified interpretation. (See Gesenius' Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon on qav.) The second passage of Scripture is in Romans: The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities -- his eternal power and divine nature -- have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse (Romans 1:18-20). Here, the Apostle alludes to Psalm 19. God has spoken through creation to all men, unbelieving men included -- even speaking of His eternal power and divine nature. The third passage that has a bearing on naturalistic theism, the revelation of God in creation, apart from the Bible, is in Acts 17:16-34, the Apostle Paul's sermon on Mars Hill. Because this passage is so long, I'll only quote the relevant parts. In this passage Paul calls the attention of the Greeks on Mars Hill to their altar "TO AN UNKNOWN GOD." Paul tells them that whom they worship, the "unknown God," he, Paul, will proclaim to them. . . . the God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and Page 4 everything else. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring' (Acts 17:24-28). Paul is speaking here of the evidence of God in His creation. This is naturalistic theism. An "effect," creation, demands an explanation of its "cause," Jehovah, God. The result of this sermon was the conversion of some of the Greeks, even Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, the supreme tribunal of Athens, which met on Mars Hill. The three Scriptures quoted above in the Psalms, Romans and Acts speak of a naturalistic theism-the revelation of God's person and work through nature, His creation. Lewis Sperry Chafer has an excellent statement on this in his systematic theology under Theology Proper: . . . there are two distinct fields of theistic research-(a) that which is within those facts which obtain in the sphere of creation, or nature, and is subject to human reason; and (b) that which, though incorporating all that is disclosed in nature, is extended to include the limitless, absolute, and all-satisfying revelation set forth in the Scriptures of Truth. The former investigation is rightly designated naturalistic theism, and the latter Biblical theism. Theology Proper enters every field from which any truth may be gained relative to the existence and character of God, or the Page 5 mode of His Being. However, in view of the basic twofold division of the human family into saved and unsaved with their varying, attending abilities to comprehend divine truth there is peculiar advantage in a division of the general subject of theism into that which is naturalistic and that which is Biblical. The unsaved, natural man, though unable to receive the things of God, is, nevertheless, everywhere confronted with effects which connote a Cause and with design which connotes a Designer. To such a one, naturalistic theism with its restricted appeal to creation and reason is peculiarly adapted. To the devout student who, being saved, is able to receive the "deep things of God," there is none of the ultimate or consummating satisfaction in naturalistic theism that he experiences in Biblical theism. He should, notwithstanding, neglect no part of the divine revelation. All that belongs to naturalistic theism is part of the divine revelation. All that belongs to naturalistic theism is of vital importance to the theological student in view of the fact that, to a limited degree, God is revealed in His creation (Ps. 19:1-6; Rom. 1:19-20), and in view of the fact that unregenerate men, especially the educated, are groping in the sphere of those truths which being in the circumscribed realm of naturalistic theism. To discover, exhibit, and defend all that reason affirms and that revelation discloses relative to that which may be known concerning God, is a task which Systematic Theology assumes. It is the function of naturalistic theism to adduce such arguments and to reach such conclusion as are within the range of reason; while it is the function of Biblical theism to recognize, classify, and exhibit the truth set forth by revelation. These two fundamental sources of erudition, though wholly dissimilar as to the method they employ and the material they utilize, do, nevertheless, coalesce as the essential parts of the one grand theme-- Theology Proper. In the following discussions the author assumes no originality in the presentation of rational argument or in the discovery of revelation. Much of that presented has been the contention of writers on these subjects from the earliest times. In fact, so Page 6 general are many of these lines of thought, that to quote an original author would be difficult indeed, if not impossible. Since reason is native to man and revelation is largely an acquisition without which the majority of man have had to live and labor, it is proper that the findings of reason should be weighed before those of revelation. The book of nature is as much God's book as the Book of revelation. The universe is His work and therefore must attest His Being, and as far as it can advance, unfold His ways. The voice of nature and voice of revelation proceeding from the same source must harmonize; nor can either be slighted with impunity. It is not contended that the book of nature is comparable in extent, exactness, or elucidation, with the Book of revelation. Pious minds, wholly satisfied with the Scriptures of Truth, should not be indifferent to the testimony of nature; nor should the superficial and profane disregard the pleadings of reason. The sincere student of truth will hardly do so. He will not avert his eye from the light of God. As their names denote, philosophy is "the love of wisdom" and science is "the interpretation of nature"; therefore, no worthy philosopher will ignore the Source of all truth and no sincere scientist will shrink from the investigation or right evaluation of the claims of naturalistic theism. (Lewis Sperry Chafer, Systematic Theology, Vol. 1, pp. 139-40). A Proper Understanding of 2 Timothy 3:16 An important biblical truth, often misunderstood, is stated in 2 Timothy: All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correction and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work (2 Tim. 3:16). This passage is often used by those who teach "the sufficiency of Scripture," to prove their point that the Bible is sufficient for the Page 7 Christian counselor. But a careful examination of the passage says something else. First, notice the person who is becoming "thoroughly equipped." It is "the man of God ." The man of God is not merely a believer. He is a believer who is walking in the Spirit! There are two kinds of believers--carnal and spiritual. The carnal believer is unmoved by God's word, which is why he is carnal, or worldly. Paul had this problem with the Corinthian Church. He told them that he could not speak to them as spiritual people but as carnal. They were worldly, which showed in their factionalism (1 Cor. 3:1-4). Further proof that "the man of God" is a Spirit filled Christian, not just a carnal believer, is borne out by use of this phrase in the Bible. "Man of God" appears in the Old Testament 77 times in 71 verses, and is applied to twelve godly individuals -- Moses, David, Elijah and Elisha being some of them. In the New Testament, "man of God" is used by Paul of Timothy (1 Tim. 6:11). There he is contrasted with "those who have wandered from the faith," carnal believers. The very grammar of the expression, "the man of God," ho tou theou anthropos (Greek text), makes this clear. "Of God" is in the genitive case. This is literally, "the godly man." This distinction between the godly man and the carnal man is important because most Christian counseling is done either with unbelievers or carnal Christians. In twenty-five years of Christian counseling, I had very few godly clients. The godly clients I did see had problems with an ungodly spouse or family member. With them, I was able to use Scripture to deal with the problem because they were responsive to it. Page 8 Once, again, Chafer has a helpful statement: That within the Christian which lusts against the Holy Spirit, creating various problems, is termed in the New Testament the flesh. Careless Christians are not concerned with the Person and work of the Holy Spirit, or with the exact distinctions which condition true spirituality; but these distinctions and truths do appeal to those who really desire a life that is well-pleasing to God. Satan has pitfalls and counterfeit doctrines in the realm of the deepest spiritual realities. The majority of these false teachings are based on a misapprehension of the Bible teaching about sin, especially the sin question as this is related to the believer. The Scripture is "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be perfect (full-grown), thoroughly furnished unto all good works (2 Tim. 3:16-17); accordingly in the same epistle believers are urged to the end that they might "study" and "rightly divide" the Word of Truth. It should be noted that two of four of the values of the Scripture in the life of the "man of God," as recorded in the above passage, are "reproof" and "correction"; yet how few, especially of these who are holding an error, are of teachable spirit! It seems to be one of the characteristics of all satanic errors that those who have embraced them seem never inclined honestly to reconsider their ground. They read only their sectarian or misleading literature and often carefully avoid hearing any correcting teaching from the Word of God. This difficulty is greatly increased when their error has led them to assume some unwarranted position regarding a supposed deliverance from sin, or personal attainments in holiness. A "correction" or "reproof," to such seems to be a suggestion toward "backsliding," and no zealously minded person would easily choose such a course as that. Much error is thriving along these lines with no other dynamic than human zeal, and the Word of God is persistently distorted to maintain human theories. Many of these errors are reproved and corrected when the fundamental distinction is recognized between the Christian's position in Christ and his experience in daily life. Whatever Page 9 God has done for believers in Christ is perfect and complete; but such perfection should not be confused with the imperfect conduct of daily life (Chafer, Systematic Theology, VI, pp. 265-66). Another observation in 2 Tim 3 is important. Biblical theism (the person and work of God revealed in Scripture) is offered to the godly to thoroughly equip them, not to exclusively equip them. If both naturalistic theism and biblical theism are correct, then we can learn from the Bible and the sciences. I had my Th.M. from Dallas Theological Seminary before I took my M.A. in marriage and family therapy in a secular setting. I was amazed how, in some cases, the psychological approaches they taught harmonized with Scripture. It was an excellent example of how some psychologists, studying God's creation, advanced psychological principles that worked. Naturalistic theism must harmonize with biblical theism. This was not always the case, however. But it happened often enough that I silently praised God because unbelievers were learning something from God's creation. Conclusion I encourage the reader to embrace what Chafer says about the truth of naturalistic theism, and biblical theism. Then, perhaps, we will truly become thoroughly equipped for every good work. # # #
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My two essays on nouthetic counseling (The Sufficiency of Scripture and WHAT DOES IT MEAN: The Hermeneutics of Natural Revelation) generated some feedback that deserves a response. 1) 2 Peter 1:3-9 was quoted by one reader as evidence of the nouthetic counselor's position on "The Sufficiency of Scripture." Though I agree with what Peter says, I don't find support for nouthetic counseling's denial of natural theology as part of the counseling process. Peter's word for "life" (NIV) is zoe, defined by The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TTDNT), "life animated by God" or "a godly life." I couldn't agree more with Peter. But the nouthetic counselor has the same problem here as he does with 2 Timothy 2:16-17 where Paul speaks of Scripture thoroughly equipping "the man of God" or "the godly man." There are only three classes of humans in the world: the unsaved who have never accepted Jesus as Savior, the saved who don't understand their position in Christ as dead to sin and as a consequence don't walk by faith in their position by the power of the Spirit, and finally, the saved who are not only positionally dead to sin, but by faith walk in that truth by the power of the Spirit. When the Apostle Paul speaks of Scripture sufficient for the man of God or the godly man, he is speaking of those believers who by faith rest in their position in Christ, as dead to sin, and experience holiness in their walk by faith and not by works. In the case of the unsaved or the saved who are running their own lives, the Scripture has nothing to offer them because they are not experiencing the power of the Holy Spirit. Because of this the nouthetic counselor has no ministry to the first two classes of men. It is the godly man, or the man living a life animated by God, who experiences the power of God's written word. It is for this reason that Paul's sermon on Mars Hill (Acts 17) is so important for the Christian counselor to understand. Paul uses natural revelation to introduce the Greeks to the "unknown god" who shows His grace not only in nature but in much more. Natural revelation doesn't save. It points to the gracious God who saves by the gift of Christ on the cross. Page 2 One other observation I would like to make about natural revelation is the fact that our Father, God, not mother, nature, is the One who supplies us with our human needs. Though much of the world is occupied with unproved scientific theories such as evolution to account for our human needs being met, let us be vigilant in the claim that Paul made in his sermon on Mars Hill. In our Father, God, we live and move and have our being and are provided with everything necessary for human existence. 2) Feedback from the same reader was sent without comment. It was a quotation of Psalm 19:7-11. It was probably to offset what I had to say about verses 1-6, and their testimony to natural revelation. All I can say about that is that it just proves what L. S. Chafer says about natural and biblical revelation: "The book of nature is as much God's book as is the Book of revelation (see the complete quote at the beginning of WHAT DOES IT MEAN). 3) I didn't do a good job in explaining what I meant in my essay on hermeneutic rules for natural revelation. At first glance, rules three and four sound the same. In rule three, the emphasis is on the unbeliever's understanding of natural revelation, hence, the emphasis on understood. Romans 1:20 leaves no doubt about this. The invisible qualities of God, His eternal power and divine nature are clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. The argument of Romans 1 is that the unbeliever can't say to God at judgment day, I didn't understand, or, I just had a vague knowledge of the unknown God (Acts 17). In rule four, I said that natural revelation is self-interpreting, which is why I emphasized it. Not only does Romans 1:20 tell us that God is clearly seen and understood in natural revelation, I wish to emphasize the fact that this must also mean that it is self-interpreting. We need no book of hermeneutic rules to understand it. Man by wisdom does not know the God of saving grace in Jesus Christ. But man can see and understand what natural revelation teaches--that there is a gracious God. This is the God who has yet more grace to offer in the saving work of Jesus Christ. Two people in Acts 17 responded to that sermon by Paul. 4) The "voice" of the Holy Spirit was another objection to my second essay--the voice of the Holy Spirit speaking to the unbeliever. I thought it interesting that the founder of Dallas Theological Seminary, Lewis Sperry Chafer and one of my favorite Dallas professors, Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost, disagree on the subject. Page 3 Chafer, in his Doctrinal Summarization on conscience says, "It seems to be something inborn and universal rather than an acquired faculty, and to be a voice of human origin rather than the voice of God" (see his Systematic Theology). Pentecost, on the other hand, in his book The Divine Comforter, has an excellent chapter on the Holy Spirit's "Ministry To the World." He says, "No one has ever been able to define conscience. Philosophers and psychologists try unsuccessfully to define it in terms of one's culture or mores. We suggest conscience is the voice of the Holy Spirit, the omnipresent One who restrains, reproves, rebukes and convicts men of their sin. Conscience is the universal witness of the Holy Spirit in the discharge of His ministry as a restrainer" (p. 74). # # #
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From Grant M., January 15, 2007 Subject: Re: The Sufficiency of Scripture Andy, I appreciated the sharing of your essay. However, my particular issue with your paper is the use of the NIV, and, in particular its mistranslation of "sarkos, carnal/fleshly" by "world" in 1 Corinthians 3. I believe such a translation totally confuses the issues involving the three spiritual enemies of the believer and thus how to deal with an appropriate response to attack by each. The appeal of the world, if accepted, doubtless will result in carnality, however, its appeal and defense against differ from that of the internal enemy, the flesh. Yes, they are both defeated in our recognition of our position and possessions "in Christ", but it is important to understand the difference in order to effectively maintain our spiritual integrity. Below are quotes from Pastor David K. Spurbeck, Sr.'s book which offers some support to this view. (from "The Christian 'In Christ'": In Christ Truth pp62-66, 69-71) Victory Over Spiritual Enemies in Christ's Death. Three spiritual enemies confront the Christian in his life: the world, the flesh and the devil. Christ's death dealt with each of these enemies. Each approaches the believer in a different way. Satan attacks the believer with his external forces. The flesh or sin nature is an appetite within the believer that can prevent him from living in his new nature. Attempting to draw the believer's attention from what he is in Christ, the world system appeals for him to direct his love and attention to its elements. While the flesh itself cannot take a believer from his spirituality, Satan, demons and the world system can move him into a life in his sin nature. Because the believer is identified as having participated in the cross work of Christ, he positively has triumphed over his enemies in his position. If he lives in his position in Christ, he is living in the sphere of spiritual victory. His defense against his enemies is completely built upon his position in Christ. ..... The World System. Christ was victorious over the world system in His cross work. It is an orderly system (_kosmos) organized by Satan at the death of Abel (Lu. 11:50, 51) to put restraints upon the sin nature of mankind. Every part of the system provides an opportunity for an expression of the sin nature within the bounds established by the system as proper. Failure to live within those bounds brings a reaction from people in the system. One's attention is held by components of the world system and it is a threat to the spiritual believer. The love produced by the Spirit of God may be misdirected toward the system and the believer can easily fall into fleshly behavior because his attention is taken from God the Father. The Christian sits in his position in Christ next to God the Father. He sits with Christ who was triumphant over the world system. "Since it is a fact that you died together with Christ from the elements (i.e. basic components) of the world system, why as living in the world are you subject to its dogmas; Do not touch for yourselves, do not taste for yourselves nor handle, which things are all for corruption in the using, down from the injunctions and doctrines from men? Which things indeed are having a word of wisdom in self devised worship and humility and severity of the body, not in any honor for the satisfaction of the flesh (Col. 2:20-22)." The reason for including all of the remaining verses in the chapter is that they give a description of what the world system can do to the individual. Every phase of the system places limitations upon the individual human being whether it is human religion, human government, human commerce, industry, senseless warfare, secular education or entertainment. Work is demanded. Conformity is encouraged. Pressure is exerted. Injunctions and instructions are carefully devised and followed. "But may it not be for me to boast except in the cross (work) of our Lord Jesus Christ, through the instrumentality of whom to me the world system has been crucified and I to the world system (Gal. 6:14)." Joseph Thayer neatly describes the situation in his lexicon. "I have been crucified to something and it has been crucified to me, so that we are dead to each other, all fellowship and intercourse between us has ceased (Lexicon, p. 586)." So much for the world system when the believer is living in his position in Christ. The world may appeal to him as a spiritual believer. It attempts to turn his _agape love from its heavenly direction and to turn it toward the system and the things that are in it (cf. 1 Jn. 2:15, 16). All the spiritual believer needs to do is to "Stop loving the world system and the things in the world system (1 Jn. 2:15)." His love is misdirected from God the Father and toward the system. A worldly appeal is the most subtle approach of all of the enemies. Before the spiritual Christian knows what has happened, his love is directed to an improper object or set of objects. The believer is made acceptable to God by Christ's work of propitiation. God the Father was perfectly satisfied in relation to the accomplishments of the work of Christ. The Father's satisfaction makes the believer acceptable providing a freedom from the attractions and affiliations with the world system. By the death of Christ and the believer's imputed participation in it, the Father is satisfied concerning the sin nature and its controlling system, the world. The Flesh or Sin Nature. Romans six clearly sees the believer as having died to the sin principle or nature in the work of Christ. In fact, the way he maintains a spiritual life free from the power of the sin nature is by appropriating his position in Christ counting it to be a fact. He is dead to the sin nature and alive to God in Christ. More will be said about Romans six in section three. ... Every believer has the potential to count his position to be as God counts it to be. "I am dead to the sin nature in Christ and have been raised from the dead ones. I am no longer counted to be alive to the flesh but am alive to God and therefore am dead to the sin nature in my position. I count it to be true because God has counted it to be true. He says so in His Word. I then yield my members alive to God as instruments of righteousness." This kills the internal fire. God counts my sin nature to be dead and so do I. I am alive with resurrection life so why should I go and function in the decaying old grave plot of the sin nature?" Satan and Demons. . . . Without an understanding of "in Christ" truth, the believer is incapable of putting on the armor of God. When one has his loins gird about with truth, he sees all that he is in Christ as it really is so that Satan's lies will not dissuade him from living in his position. The helmet of salvation involves that which the believer has received in Christ at his salvation. Appropriating his righteousness in Christ, he puts on the breastplate of righteousness. In Christ is peace with God and so the preparation of the feet. Having the shield of the faith involves the body of revelation concerning the victory the believer has over his spiritual enemies when he is seen in Christ. Every fiery dart of the wicked one is ineffective when the believer puts his position in Christ forth as a defense. How can a defeated foe defeat a victor who is living in his triumph? The sword of the Spirit is identified as the utterance of God. These are specific utterances from God that will defend the believer against specific lusts that Satan uses in his attacks. Essentially, defense against Satan is accomplished when the believer mentally appropriates his position in Christ and lives in it using it as a defense. Satan's attacks on the believer become attacks on Christ and because of this he is doomed to failure and defeat. When the Christian fails to appropriate his position against Satanic lusts, he will be defeated and cease to emanate the things of the Spirit and begin to emanate the things of the flesh. A natural result of defeat is that he commits acts of sin as a result of the temptation. All three enemies of the believer were defeated at Calvary. Jesus Christ was perfectly victorious. In Him every believer is a co-participant in that victory. If the saint appropriates the victory he has in Christ, he too has victory over his spiritual enemies. Each enemy is treated in a different way. All of the believer's defense against his spiritual enemies is mental. He stops directing his love toward the world system by mentally redirecting it toward the Father. He mentally appropriates his position as dead to the sin nature and alive to God by counting it to be so (reckoning) in defeating the flesh, yielding his members to God for righteousness. He puts on the armor of God when Satan attacks, mentally appropriating his position as victorious over Satan in Christ. Ignorance of one's position in Christ brings spiritual defeat because the believer's defense is in Christ. How can a person appropriate that which he has if he doesn't know about it? He can't! "in Christ I died and by His death all of my spiritual enemies have been defeated. When I live in my position appropriating it for myself, I triumph in Him and the approach of the enemy is ineffective. Since my mind is reflecting on things in the heavenlies, I see myself as my heavenly Father does. I have glorious victory. I dare not change my thinking for when I do, I am instantly vulnerable to defeat from any and all of my spiritual enemies. I can live in my position and therefore in His victory or I can live as though I was still in fallen Adam and in my own defeat." Without the resurrection of Christ, human beings would have little idea of the true victory that was accomplished in His death. This carries directly to the way the Christian will be thinking while living in his position in Christ. These concepts will be developed further in the third section of this book where the participation of the believer is viewed from within the Body of Christ as he relates to other Christians and Christ his Head. This brief discussion is necessary here because the believer is resurrected in Christ. Where there is no death, there is no need for resurrection--the person is still alive in whatever area of his existence he has life. If he is spiritually dead, being separated from God, he needs to be raised from the dead. If he is physically dead, he needs physical resurrection to return to the land of the living. One cannot be raised in Christ if God has not imputed him to be dead in Christ's death. Jesus Christ's substitution is perfect. He died as a substitute and was raised as a substitute. =end quote= Seated in the heavenlies in Christ! Grant # # #